Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.
- President Dwight D. Eisenhower

Friday, December 05, 2008

Kristen of Astoria

"Um, Scoot, NY's financial district got a boost because that's where so much of the country's money is made. I agree that Michigan gets regularly fucked in the ass, and it doesn't look like things are gonna get any better if the auto industry doesn't get bailed out, but that, my friend, is out of my hands. Talk to President Obama."

All right, I understand your need to defend New York's financial center. I need to defend my state's largest industry. I also feel like I need to convince that you do indeed have the power to help the auto industry.

One in ten jobs in America are tied to the automotive industry. Now, that is for the industry as a whole. However, the Big Three earned that nick name for a reason. The parts suppliers, the customizers, the auto body technicians... all of them rely on a stable auto industry. It is in your personal interest that Chrysler, Ford, and GM do not fail.

Moreover, six in ten Americans are against an auto industry bail-out. Six in ten. You have the ability to explain that those six in ten Americans are cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Look, New York's financiers do this nation a service by moving the numbers around the world. Detroit's automotive industry built the weapons of war that won world wars, deterred the soviets, and whose civilian brands are now being bought by Chinese consumers entering the middle class.

The automotive industry is vital to the economy, to national security, and to American pride. It's only 34 billion dollars. In loans.


cassdawn said...

first of - i love how obama is already responsible, particularly when it is his party that is pushing to bail out the "big" three

anyway, i disagree with both bailouts. and your arguments haven't swayed me.

Scooter said...

Disagree all that you'd like. It won't change the fact that YOU need the Bailout to happen. There really is no plan B.

Drunken Chud said...

no. we do not need the bailouts. they need to fail. chapter 11 exists for a reason. to break down bad behavior. a bankruptcy judge will force union wages down, tear up old contracts to a new, more fiscally responsible contract, eliminate reduntant brands "mercury, lincoln, pontiac, buick etc..." and help the companies streamline themselves so they can be competitive in the market now. they are too big, too bulky, and always behind the curve and never ahead of it. bailing them out is simply giving your kid a cookie for shitting on the couch. you can't reward bad behavior, in fact the american people haven't been rewarding their bad behavior, seeing as how GM lost its market share to toyota for the first time this past year.

business do not DESERVE to stay in business. no matter how many people rely on the business. guess what, if the big three go under guess what happens? NEW COMPANIES EMERGE! OLD COMPANIES TAKE OVER. people act like this is some kind of a closed system, whereby the failing of the big three means the failure of everything we know all at once and then we are left to pick up the pieces. THEY'VE BEEN FAILING SINCE 1980.

I hope they don't get bailed out, i was pissed at the AIG bailout, and this is getting out of hand. LESS GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION IS WHAT WE NEED! NOT MORE! government fucks up everything it touches. let the companies and the buying public determine the fate of the big three. not an artificial assist from the MAN to help them stay competitive. that's not being competitive, that's handicapping.

if they do this, it is no longer a free market economy where anyone can make it. it is now a 3 mile race that the home team only has to run 2 miles to win. this is bullshit and it stinks to high hell and is only prolonging the inevitible.

btw, you're paying $2,200 more per US car just for UAW retirees and benefits. that's on average across all three. it's more per manufacture when you break it down. you can't be competitive when you have that to add to each car right off the bat.

use your head.

cassdawn said...

well, i do disagree and i disagree that i need it. *I* don't. and you haven't convinced me otherwise. you might have better luck with facts; reference to statistics or logical theory rather than emotion.

point in fact, i've seen a little of this in action. i've been working on a project for amtrak for the last 12 years. amtrak is federally subsidized; they have a monopoly on the industry and yet for over 20 years they haven't been able to run in the black. 9 years ago, the government gave 300 million to its most successful commuter line to improve it. and their numbers have fallen. OH and that 300 million number was supposed to be 150 million. they doubled the estimated cost due to poor planning and shitty management. so federal help doesn't do much. and i am saying this abou tsomething i would like to see work. the branch in question is in my area of the world and if more people used it would make my corner of the world far more pleasant. plus, it would be great for the environment. and let's face it there is something so cooooool about trains. frankly i would like to see us use trains the way they do in europe. so i understand feeling fondly for an industry and for the community that supports and is supported by it but . . . oh well.

let's look at how plan b worked with the aig. top management those supposedly "responsible" kept their jobs and their salaries and their RIDICULOUS perks. the actual workers were cut back though. and the government gave our money but there is no oversight; no accountability and ultimately no benefit. we gave them money to keep the status quo after seeing for ourselves that the status quo didn't work.

i'd second chud's assessment but actually i have to go one further. giving your kid a cookie for shitting on the couch makes more sense. you have to let your kids know that you love them no matter what. we have no obligation to *love* these companies. this is supposed to be a free market.

look at what the airline bailout did. nothing. it costs more to fly; you get less than you did before; and there are no extra protections. now, if we had given them the bailout and insisted that every airplane had to have a cockpit door like they have in israel - okay, i could have gotten behind that. same thing here, tell me what is going to come out of it besides they get to stay in business.

at least with the airlines we could point to a reason that they were suffering. the car companies - no unusual event. quite simply; the free market works.

and i know the auto industry is saying that they will agree to some oversight / strings attached so okay. that means we forfeit the free market. i would think a libertarian (even a little l) would want to move away from the government babysitter. i seem to recall you talking about getting our fiscal house in order and speaking against government handouts.

as for me, if my money has to got to someone else i would rather it be the family that lost their house on one paycheck or someone who is disabled than a company that had every advantage and opportunity and squandered each one.

as for the jobs attached; all the figures i've seen are 1 in 8 and not all of them are big three jobs; not all of them are in the manufacturing (and lord knows all those detroit cars out there are going to need constant repairs for years to come) . the jobs that are attached to the big three? well, one of the first things the big three offered up to get the bailout was some of those jobs. so maybe with the bailout there will be a smaller percentage lost but not by much.

but without the bailout maybe the market would be opened up and those people unemployed would find a job working for a company that intends to produce a market worthy product.

but the fact is none of my arguments matter. the fact that the 60 percent of the country doesn't want this - that doesn't matter either. this bailout will go through. and the big three will still not produce any competition for honda or toyota. which means they will not be paying back that "loan".

because i can guarantee you they won't be getting my money. if someone *gave* me one of those cars i'd trade it in. which is sad really. i adore the _idea_ of buying american. i really do. hell, i have a mustang from back in the day when ford was thinking about the customer. but on the other hand, i ain't buying a shit sandwich just because you put it in an american flag wrapper.

Drunken Chud said...

i ain't buying a shit sandwich just because you put it in an american flag wrapper.

*stands up*

*starts slow clap*